Please, allow me to introduce myself. I fought in Fallujah, Iraq in Nov with 1st Battalion, 8th Marines, Alpha Co, 1st plt. I was also involved in Afghanistan, Liberia, Djibouti, and a slew of other places many people have never heard of. I know what I am talking about and usually stay quiet on many subjects, but the subject of gun control has me irritated.

Recently there have been many arguments that the. I have a personal story to share to the contrary. This is a true and accurate account of what happened to me and my fellow Marines in a deadly firefight in central Fallujah, Iraq. I was sitting on a roof top of a two story building, we were pushing south with other units. Our tactics were to move at night and setup in buildings during the day for the fight. Rarely did we move during the day, and if we did, it was not far.

The other Marines on the rooftop with me were spotting targets and eliminating them. I noticed a bad guy, with a AK strapped to his back, run out into the middle of an ally about yds from me, produce a RPG and take a knee.

I carried 3 different weapons with me in the Fallujah battle. My M40 bolt gun, my M9 pistol, and a modified MA4 with a heavy barrel, better trigger, and a scope.

I generally used that last rifle as my primary. It shot a standard 5. This bad guy took a knee and started to aim his RPG at our building. I fired once, hitting him square in the chest. The man stumbled a bit but regained his balance and steadied his weapon. I fired again, again hitting him. But this time, it did not faze him and he was able to touch off that grenade.

The explosion rattled the building and injured a Marine below me on the second floor. The bad guy dropped the RPG once he fired it, got up, and ran down the alley away from me.

He still had the AK on his back. I fired again, twice, both times hitting him in his upper thoracic region. He was not phased. My L-T was shooting at him while yelling at his sniper me to kill him! The man started pushing himself up a short wall near the end of the alley way. I decided to take a head shot at about yds. I centered the cross-hairs, and squeezed. JUST as the round broke, the man ducked his head, the bullet entered his brain housing group just at the base of the skull, effectively removing the back portion of his dome.

I skull capped him. He stumbled over the wall and fell down behind it, out of my view in the dead space. As soon as I saw him, he fell down and did not get up again. It took 5 well aimed rounds to put this guy down. Granted, he was most likely on something, but it still took 4 in the chest, and one head shot to stop this guy.

I was not the only Marine to be involved in something like this. Who is to say that an attacker in the U. The AR can be built in many different calibers that better meet the needs of HUNTERS and target shooters. Also the AR is. The primary reason the military adopted the M in 5.

I have much more info to share, but I know your time is precious and I have other rants to get to. I believe this nation needs to be better informed of the truth, especially if someone believes the. I usually joke that intermediate calibers7.

This story proves why you should rather have an AR instead of a AR Agreed, but the last 20 years has been a golden era for the intermediate calibres, do you remember AK ammo at 89 bucks per thousand in the late 90s? The surplus ammo was always alot cheaper than. The author sounds like somebody whose concept of war is a video game. Smell fish story here-dd anyone check said jihadi to confirm actual hits?

Could the head wound have been a glancing shot? Point is, any true sniper or marksman knows that the human body is dynamic in the amount of abuse it can take; even famed US President Andrew Jackson carried a large musket ball lodged in his body years after he was wounded and lived with it!

WW2 vets were hit multiple times with German 8mm and Japanese. One of my former Capts in the L. E agency I worked for, had the nasty evidence of at least three scarring wound recieved from AK 47 FIRE when he fought in the battle for Hue City in Vietnam. Bottom line, there is no SUPER bullet.

Only a well placed shot to the brain stem or massive blood loss will shut down an aggressive assailant, be that a street gang member or a taliban fighter.

Many of us who didnt carry around Ms and full ammo loads in our youth will probably never know pissing and moaning about the weight or the fatigue. The modern army and from my stand point, law enforcement, need something light and fast and easy to bring on and stay on target. Going backward and dragging around lb garands up in the mountains of afghanistan by 20yr olds loaded down with 90lbs of kit doesnt relate to future city block fighting in eastern europe.

We have BOMBERs and armed drones that can take out more enemy forces than the rifle of an average infantryman. Good points, and one of my own to add. This guy survived 4 bullet strikes and finally a head shot killed him. How many people did you shoot with your 5. It is easy to get wrapped around the axle over anecdotes, but we need to remember that they are only anecdotes.

PS, when the military switched from. Is this the way you answer to a experienced us marine sniper WOW shame on you. Just because there are survivers from 7.

If just because you said there were survivers to a hevier calibers then the marine sniper is wrong then let me tell you i know people who has survived granades tnt detonations house bomming well even the iroshima nagasaki nuclear boms hade survivers. The sniper is rigth the 5. Felipe — I cannot understand ANYTHING you are attempting poorly to say.

It was absolutely painful to try and interpret what your point was. Before you try to correct others and call them stupid you should first learn to write properly. When I was a young boy, YEARS ago, before the first mass shooting and before the raging AR controversy, I used to hunt with a I used it for ground hogs.

My father would not let me use it for deer because it was not powerful enough to reliably or humanely put down a deer. I was so confused when I went in to the military and had a 5. The military began using the 5.

It is a varmit round. But is not a powerful round regardless of what you believe. Just got rounds of 7. Yea I call B. Running away with his brains hanging out my damn ass. This Internet commando spent zero time in the Marines or any other branch. Possibly from a short barrel? Civilians in the US can have any barrel length and any ammo they want— they are not limited to ball ammo. Ammo is increasingly likely to be premium copper hollow points, which will blow clean through them leaving a good wound channel, just like it does on mule deer.

And all that with 5. Having hunted with a 5. And even though he knocks the 5. If you watch the gelatin as it gets hit, it flexes upwards.

If you pause it right when the bullet hits, the trajectory becomes almost a straight line due to the flex of the gel block. I think you are spot on, Matt. I would be extremely interested to know if the 5.

I have read a great deal about 5. Scenarios, I might add, that I am thankful I have not had to experience personally. In even the simplest math: No amount of permanent wound cavity or hydrostatic shock or whatever, changes the fact that 5. Military cant use hollowpoint. The story, while interesting, is hardly empirical evidence. We use Mk rounds that are called open tip, something that sure has heck looks like a HP, although designated as something else.

Now, granted, the intent of the bullet is to be a match bullet, so mushrooming is not what you would expect of a bullet designed to mushroom and create a larget cavity. Intuitively, though, I would expect the Mk to mushroom to some degree.

Furthermore, the use of non-HP or frangible a. This effectivly removes not just the wounded enemy, but additional personel to drag his ass off of the battle field. They use FMJ because of reliability, expense, and penetration based reasons.

This is ONE example, an anecdote at best. For all we know, he was wearing plate armor and took the first four rounds in a protected area. Or maybe it was just one of those improbable things that happens. The human body can take a lot of trauma if the CNS is not destroyed. People are regularly cut in half in vehicle accidents, and still able to speak and move their arms.

If the guy was shot in the chest at a couple hundred yards with FMJ, he could have sustained lethal wounds, even if he was shot directly in the heart, he had enough blood in his brain and body to remain a threat for up to 8 seconds. Also, civilians are not limited by the Geneva convention.

We can put animals down ethically with proper. Bullets yaw move off-axis in gelatin, and people. The best guy to read on this is probably Martin Fackler, who is a pathologist and wound ballistics specialist who has done a lot of work for the Army. Story goes that the original ARs sent to Vietnam had barrels made on old rifling equipment so that the twist was actually more like 1: As a result the 55gr bullets whizzing out were barely stabilized but at jungle combat distance they would start to yaw pretty early and produced devastating wounds.

Nominal performance was fps at the muzzle. To improve accuracy the rifling was increased to 1: Then the A2 came out and to stabilize the 62gr bullet chosen for penetration the rifling twist went to 1: Not only that, but the increased bullet weight resulted in a not-as-fast projectile, and when you combine that with velocity loss from launching it from a The military decided to spend a lot of money on the MA1 and the SOST and other trick projectiles to up lethality, in the meantime they suggested that targets be shot center-mass TWICE.

Were I to build a custom AR upper for defensive uses, one idea would be to get a custom barrel with a 1: The other option is the 5. The Afghans hated it when the Russians were using it. It is the Hague Convention, not the Geneva Convention that banned the use of expanding bullets in warfare.

Good eye… the reason the. It could enter the shoulder and conceivably exit at the femur. And, as stated above, it was a lighter round which made it easier to carry more. The US needs a weapon that can hit the target with a sense of accuracy beyond 50 yds. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT AK ACCURACY, or should I say LACK of it. The ONLY reason terrorist love the weapon is because their versions are full auto, and they can throw lots of rounds down range, quickly. Without hitting there target though.

And by the way, I was in Nam and the M16 by the time I got there was and still is a great platform that is NOW quite reliable, accurate and lightweight. The bullet exited the top because the gelatin was curved from the impact as it penetrated. I think they would have gotten more realistic results if the gelatin had been secured in place. I have a 6. Those are all just handguns. The 44 mag unless its a reduced load will expend most of its energy in the wall behind the target while the with the right load will put all its energy around ftlbs, or twice that of a magnum into the target.

The is used for Kodiak and the …. As in — this is good for two reasons. First, this guy counters the new BS by McChrystal that the 5. Second, it counters the old B. Many former service members have been saying the same ting for years. This is unpredictable as this Marine has pointed out. In Korea the M1 carbines were mostly discarded as the. Although snipers are trained for head shots, typical marksmanship training in the various armed forces trains to shoot at center mass.

No, in fact, they are not. Center mass all the way. Head shots leave too much room for error. I find myself raising a brow to the issue of the last shot: The continuing actions of the enemy in spite of reportedly well-placed shots are extraordinary. How I read it, the head shot glanced off and removed a portion of the skull, but did not do significant damage to the brain tissue. Impairment would come later from loss of blood, rather than sooner if there had been direct tissue damage or if the hemorrhaging had put pressure on the brain.

This officer was shot right above the left eye with a though it initialy looks like he has a neck wound later in the vid you can see the entrance and exit at the base of the skull ,and he runs a good 20yds before falling and is still flailing after that.

This is one of the reasons I have shotguns and large-caliber handguns as my go-to home defense tools, not an AR in 5. If I ever have to shoot someone, I want them to stop and fall down Right Now, not bleed out over the course of 30 minutes from a half-dozen through-and-through laser holes.

A 12 guage slug to the chest, when you absolutely positively have to stop them NOW. Holy cow, how big is your house? Sorry, have watched too many live fire experiments with. Whereas the handgun ammo, went through up to three sets of double sided drywall depending on caliber. Ask first responders to suicide by self-inflicted gunshots why they do not just rush in.

Military personnel compare the FMJ M green tip, which is designed for optimal penetration, from the velocity obtained from a M16 barrel, and lump all 5. Its a faulty attribute comparison. Also, yes larger wound channels and kinetic energy do help in bringing down a enemy faster, though you are trading those advantages off with heavier recoil and increased weight.

The M1 carbine and 30 cal are plenty lethal with meters. Please remember that we civilians can use hollowpoint, and most of the lethality stories were at greater distances than most would consider useful. Some ruminated on their prospects for becoming the squad shotgunner in addtn to getting a.

Funny how the low opinion of the 5. I still would not want to get hit in the chest with something that had twice the power of a magnum and penetrated 12 to 14 inches hollowpoint or fragmenting. I would want a m14 to take someone out from several hundred yards away.

In their minds all black guns are evil, fully automatic, designed to spray a thousand rounds a second, and have no purpose but killing innocents. They find it easier to rant than read. Maybe you can give him some gun pointers. This validates everything I have said about the 5.

It was a big mistake to drop the M and the round. If a WWII infantryman could carry the 9. As this marine said the 5. Were you using M green tips or Mk barrier blind rounds? Yes — pay more for a round with the same effectiveness as the dirt cheap 7.

Going to war with a. While there are better rounds 6. Lumping something that has twice the energy of a magnum with a 22lr is disingenuous. The in effectiveness of the. Forgot to metion, some of those AQ and taliban a-holes were on opium and other narcotics, as mentioned by the Marine above. Same as the Japanese during WWII, just like he mentioned it would most likely require the dislodging of the brain to stop those guys.

If the US actually wanted to win wars, we would have dropped our egos and took Soviet experience over there as a example: Facing deportation as an illegal alien from USA? How about 40 acres and a John Deere tractor for you and extended family in Afghanistan?

The Soviets almost got it right. Exclude and deny territory to the enemy and their support people. End poppy production, or completely control it. No way can we win with our half-assed measures, no matter how lethal or excellent our forces. As such, he got to carry pretty much what he wanted, and for CQB that was usually a Thompson with a sidearm.

A young soldier with him one day fired several 5. Before he could aim at my Dad, he was hit with a burst from the Thompson that spun him around and smashed his spine, killing him instantly. Dad was also in the Ordanance Corps later in his career, and told me that it was well known in the selection of the 5. That was considered desirable, as if you were fighting a civilized enemy, you would tie up two or three people to care for each wounded combatant.

Unfortunately, shooting people with a gun that does not kill or at least put down with authority results in a lot of our own casualties. I love plinking with the 5. These are good reasons why many states including CA prohibit the use of. Makes it doubly ironic that many of those same states say the most common. He explained one of the reasons for NATO choosing the 5. The correct catagories are Citizen, Civil Servant including Civillian law enforcementMilitary. Those who serve in the military: I appreciate the military and those that serve others.

If serving others is not a big enough distinction or reward for a public servant, then you should seek employment elsewhere. I think we basically agree. I meant to eloborate on the fact that law enforcement is civillian and does not equal military. My point was that our society has a habit of lumping all other government employees espicially police in with the military and comparing them against all other law abiding citizens. Our founders were adamently against being policed by the military and we do ourselves no favors by allowing our opponents to brokers forex quote trading volume the rights and needs of citizens civillians, comoners, inhabitants to those of a conglomerated government enforcer.

They make those comparisons based on flawed roles. Some citizens join the military to work for the civil government and protect our nation from outside threats, other citizens join the civil government to help our nation opperate more smoothly.

They have very differant roles to help the nation, and neither of them has more power or should have more powerful tools than the people. My big assumption is that our service members are being issued FMJ, which probably just zip right through somebody.

I would rather hit them with a. Or any hollowpoint for that matter. Hence, current Open Tipped Match usage. For a while, standard rounds are 55gr but crew serve weapons use the heavier 62gr rounds. A lot of infantry just started taking saw ammo. The DoD knows full well the 5. Depending on what, where and how they hit and temp, life span etc. Use a medium to heavy load with a bullet in the. He is correct, the should only be your backup, or a rifle for a small woman,young person.

If you are in a real life and death fight you need at least a win. We shot Viet Cong. It was meant for rear area security.

Correct, although special forces were using the AR in Vietnam for a while before the whole military got saddled with it. Again, us civilians, using hollowpoint or fragment ammo, at close to mid distances, cant ask for more than a Twice the power of a magnum and all the energy goes into the victim. Through cover or any type of armor. Thanks for that info, jarhead. From a former squid. I never liked the M or the 5. I always thought the AK was more like our M-1 Garrand you could drag it through the mud and it would still fire but the M had to be kept too clean for a combat weapon.

The latest GM cars come with ONstar, to better track you down and remotely shut off your ignition with. The Garand, M14, and the AK all use forex pros eur usd systems for their cycling.

No gas tubes blowing into bolt to get clogged up by the mud and dirt. Eugene Stoner wanted a really light rifle, and direct impinging was the price. Where did you hear that gem? They never used black powder in the M! They used Winchester ball powder at first which was a problem. Garand, M, AK, FAL, all piston operation, covers most of the world.

They work, but are certainly not the only way to get good performance over a long time. The Germans have done fine with the no-gas G3. Over-optimizing a system is what the US Army procurement system for weapons is guilty of. The initial peak for infantry weapon was the M, then it was criticized for being difficult for 95 pound females or tiny SE Asian men to use in continuous-fire mode.

Heavy ammo limits basic load to about rounds boo hoo! How about we issue. The M14 EBR was more difficult to maintain and generally less reliable than the M4 and M16 due to a variety of factors. This is not a jab against the M1 garand, but a reflection of reality that harsh conditions even choke piston guns. I heard ARs are more cold weather and dust sensitive.

You got to really jam the mud into that open action on the M1A as shown in the silly youtube vid of one being pulled through the mud. I know the wood stocks had problems in the humid jungle they started issuing fiberglass while the M16 was being phased in. Pistons do seem to run drier, which may be of concern if your in a hot, sandy environment shooting your AR alot during the day and cant do maintenance.

Of course the more violent action of the 7. Ill even argue to say that in Afghanistan, the M16s and M4s were far more reliable than the M14 EBRs. This is why I maintain a couple of 7. Obviously general knowledge and competency of weapons and ballistics are not required of Army Generals.

On the other hand, one really great example can change hearts and minds. Men shoot the 7. Real men shoot the 7. What about a man who shoots. Read Blackhawk Down sometime to see the dislike for the 5. In a way I am happy letting these idiots believe the 5. If we keep telling them the truth what happens then? Instead of just coming after 5. No matter what we say or do they find a way to turn it against us.

While this may be true in the military, it needs to be said that our military is required to use only FMJ ammunition. If you can use soft point or hollow point ammunition or ammo that reliably fragments on impact, it makes the. That was my thought. While not a panacea even something like a 65 gr. Game King would certainly help the situation.

An Israeli sniper friend of mine tells a very similar story about an experience with. Roughly the same story, but with more vulgar language and thick Israeli accent…quite entertaining. Too often we would shoot someone in the chest with a 5. If you ever pull butts at the rifle range, the 5. I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the 5. Most of these comments are obviously from people who have never been to war and have no idea what they are talking about or are bashing the 5.

It certainly can kill, but it does not have the stopping power that I would prefer.

Now your home and can use hollowpoints. Thanks for the article. In the authors own words: The military also uses ball 9mm ammo rather than JHP. Yes, but it is anecdotal evidence backed by many similar experiences spanning the decades that 5. It is very possible that the results would have been identical if the target had been hit with a 7. Yes, which simply demonstrates that Armed Citizens should not handicap themselves by following a law of warfare Hague Convention that does not apply to them.

Handgun cartridges are historically weak when compared to rifle cartridges. Handguns shine in the areas of conceal-ability and portability…but are terribly weak in the areas of ballistics and terminal effects. The other take-away from this? Understanding your cartridges capabilities and limitations, with a healthy dose of shot placement and follow-up shots is the key to winning any gunfight.

I hear that a lot but if you are restricted to ball ammo the 45 is a much more lethal round than the 9mm. Yes modern 9mm JHP is equal to or better than 45 ball but 45 also comes in a modern JHP.

The caliber wars continues. FMJ 45 and 9mm are examples of the two calibers being more similar kinetic energy wise more than ever. Since when is a. See the Joint Munitions Effectiveness Manual if you are a cleared person. Mass is the most important determinant of lethality for a stock technical analysis ebook download velocity range.

JHPs transfer for energy for a given mass but mass is still king. This is while a modern 9mm JHP is as lethal as 45 ball, the higher mass of a 45 JHP will be even more lethal. Be advised that the.

I wish really wished that it was for the longest time since i started off as a 45 proponent. It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty…. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress atAugust 17, Except the militia was failure in battle.

The end-run around that? I believe I could only find maybe 5 total, not consecutive years that the US was not involved in either a domestic or foreign affair.

Not saying it justifies a damn thing, but standing armies can be raised to further American interests…and if they are constantly shuffled from one hot zone to another, there is no chance to disband the military, per the Constitution and the founders intent. To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years.

That is obviously a loophole through which an oppressive military industrial complex has been driven. The standing is not prohibited by the Second Amendment. Show me where it says thay in the text. Actually read it sometime.

Of course, the constitution allows for this. They were not as effective, predictably, when facing a conventional army on the open battle.

Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. Among the Romans it was a standing forex hitter ea to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

I disproved your assertion with several quotes proving they argued against A standing army. I omit the overall poor performance of the militia during the Revolution and its final curtain call during the Blackhawk War. You could say that linux stock market tracking were instrumental in winning the Battle of New Orleans except Jean La Fafitte and his merry band of pirates did most thedamage except they were professional fighters.

If the British got over the parapett the militia would have run away and Jackson would not be a hero. Do not confuse a band of dedicated men with a the general population re Rogers Rangers. Did you learn that with in pillow talk with DiFi? While the Constitution allows for raising an army, it is only for a period of 2 years. Do NOT respond to flamers. Yes and where have I said otherwise? Indeed, and to add to that, it was intended as a check to keep a professional armed force in check from terrorizing the general population which happened countless times in Europe.

The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, — Edited by John C. Government Printing Office, — I would have to be against the idea of armed citizens to have any incentive to weasel around that. There is a reason for the 2nd amendment. If you think of me as a supporter of large standing armies and executive power manipulation to maintain such a beast in direct contradiction of our own constitution like what is happening nowthen you couldnt be more wrong.

The USMC is a department of the Navy, the one military force that the Constitution gives permission to be maintained in times of both peace and war. Certainly their mission has changed. To expect it to have remained the same is simply demonstrating extreme naivety toward the evolution of warfare i.

Fact is, the Founders were very intelligent and had witnessed innovation and advancement in their own lives. To assume that they assumed technology would stagnate once they died is foolish. The Constitution is written, not sloppily, but in a way that allows it to retain relevance in any age, regardless of technology. It simply relies upon a moral people, something we lack in the halls of Washington today. Also, please look back on my post above, gta online fastest way to make money solo the Founders intent behind a standing army.

I was agreeing with you…as of right now I am respectfully attempting to point out a few errors in your posts. I would fully support dismantling the US Army, per its un-Constitutional standing. However, I know this will never happen. Also, please re-read the section of the Constitution you quoted above.

The two year time limit was for appropriated funds…money…not a limit upon how long the army was maintained.

The Constitution is misquoted and misunderstood far too frequently these days. Further misunderstanding of the document simply leads to it eventually being declared obsolete by the hdfc foreign exchange rate today public at large.

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Per my own experience, I know few active duty Marines who would follow orders that they knew were un-Constitutional. You cannot blame or deride soldiers, sailors, airmen, or Marines for serving when the US has merely paid lip service to its original intent since the so-called Civil War. The intent and goal of the Founders is no longer taught…excuse their ignorance, teach the truth, then you can deride those who chose to ignore the truth.

Barring that, hope that the individuals you so clearly despise hold true to the oaths they may not fully understand. In the meantime, I respectfully ask that you refrain from demonstrating your hatred towards my brothers forex trading dummy account I. The founders stood vociferously against a Standing Army, the 2A was meant to prevent a Standing Army and they said so, yet you support every pretext that the Collectivists have offered for maintaining a Standing Army.

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You may as well kiss Feinstein on the lips, because you both piss on the intent of the 2A. You aiming on the first half, and she on the second half. You weasel with yahoo finance forex charts like Feinstein. It is to prevent the establishment of a standing armythe bane of liberty….

Why are you having a difficult time understanding? I use that as well thanks to it being recommended by DocGKR. Only thing that sucks is it costs close to a buck a round. M and M are good for plinking or range use m even less so, which is why latest news forex trading strategy ea have little of itbut there is a plethora of other options that are much much better. Sounds like an updated and rifle version of the whole reason the was developed.

The military has few m14s left, many given to other countries by clinton 2. The navy actually had the most m14s in stock in the 90s 3. The few m14s in use by the army are as designated marksman rifles, carefully controlled 5. Did you actually serve? This is a really dum myth. Thank you for your service sir. Fackler stated in the study that in fact that was the design rationale of making money from your homestead 5.

Incapacitation is the goal, not lethality. If you are hit in the chest by a hollowpoint at close range twice the energy of a magnum…a known manstopper that did not kill many, but stunned them temporarily out of the fightyou are sooooo screwed. I was a MC Scout Sniper in the previous war. The Corps has vacillated between the Sierra great Matching, Normandy match ammo and some unspecified projectiles.

All forex broker rating indonesia now pretty much ballitic hollow points but Geneva compliant. Point being; the Marine shared his experience is correct; the.

Their primary mission is to conduct close reconnaissance and surveillance operations in order to gain intelligence on the enemy and the terrain. Scout Snipers must earn the rank of Lance Corporal, be selected by their how much money does a marine sniper make to join the scout-sniper platoon and complete an approved scout-sniper course in order to receive this designation.

Initial Training Requirements vary by battalion, on which there are binary options bonuses infantrymen who qualify livestock research and trading private limited be selected for training conducted at the battalion level after successfully completing a two-week indoctrination course.

After part time job from home in petaling jaya for a time in the battalion scout-sniper platoon, a Marine may how much money does a marine sniper make sent to the formal Scout Sniper Basic Course to earn the official scout-sniper MOS. Within the MEU A Scout Sniper platoon works directly for the battalion commander.

They may be tasked to provide support to maneuver units or may operate separately. Detects, observes and confirms sniper targets, calculates the range and wind conditions on a given target, conducts reconnaissance and surveillance. Delivers long-range precision fires on selected targets, conducts reconnaissance and surveillance. Based on this description, I note 2 jobs: The men involved have likely cross-trained officially or unofficially to be able to do their part better.

Based on this description, Marines in these jobs are well-trained, experienced Lance Cpl. Patience would be an important personality feature of an individual doing these jobs. Even if the members of a militia unit cannot meet the standards of elite Marines, the operational knowledge would be very valuable. I think the mentality behind the. These men were essentially slaves forced into battle. Conscription is one of prime fms forex. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful.

Let the damned thing go down the drain! Totally agreed on conscription. If a war is worth fighting than the warrior is worth market rate for his services. As far as our foreign policy the precedent was set by one of the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson when he sent the marines to the Barbary coast. The USA will protect our economic interests abroad. Nowadays, the military is used to bully Mafia-style smaller nations with resources to take.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in.

I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in where have I heard that name before? I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket.

Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. Bear in mind that it was MERCHANT sailors that were being kidnapped. In it was the same deal only Briton. We fought the communists to keep free markets free. This country was founded on commerce, made rich on commerce, and has fought and always will fight to secure our economic interests.

We fought in Bosnia and Somalia for no interest other than humanitarian. Our chief interests in Iraq is the security of our ally Israel and the free flow of oil to Europe — we get very little of our oil from the middle east. We have no interest in Afghanistan now that Bin Laden is dead. And BTW what resource are we getting from Iraq and Afghanistan? Almost all of the oil contracts in Iraq went to non-American companies.

We need to choose wisely where our economic interest are and which ones are worth the investment in blood and treasure to secure. I have always considered. I know some guys that use. Just lazy I guess.

Thank you for your service and your invaluable insight, Sir, and I anxiously look forward to reading more from you!! I dont agree that 5. The green tip was:.

Now lets throw M out of the equation and introduce modern OTMs currently being used by units in Iraq and Afghanistan. From that perspective, 5. With modern ammunition, it is very effective against human targets. Is it the best the military could have adopted? We messed up by ditching a true intermediate cartridge for the and then messed up again by adopting the even smaller 5. After the dust settled, target engagements were estimated to be as far as yards.

Its more about what the general population believe it be. What he describes is simply not possible with the headshot he describes. Not true at all. The proverbial perfect shot consists of separating your spinal cord from the brain complex. Do some research on the physiology of the brain before making baseless comments.

A Marine was injured and could easily have been killed for NO OTHER REASON than that 5. You can pull any anecdotal evidence you want, and make any caliber look bad if you really want to.

You could ask a number of people who have shot people with 5. Reports of enemy combatants receiving multiple wounds from the. There was even one report of an individual being struck six times, who then walked roughly 14 kilometers to a British aide station for treatment8. The Indian Army, which had a fairly large amount of independence from the British Imperial Army, set to work to improve the effectiveness of the.

To expect it to be a one-shot stop is not ideal, which is why snipers always use larger caliber rifles for that purpose. As much as I like the 5. But it was probably designed that way—to incapacitate a BG and put him out of action, not necessarily kill him. Its also used by our Military to be able to carry more rounds and provide more cover fire downrange, not necessarily kill everything it hits.

So why is everyone surprised????? Justice; the headshot angle is a myth born in Hollyweird. Ultimately we are looking for solid strikes on high bleed areas as opposed to high drama hits.

It increases your hit likelihood. That talk was incredibly short-sighted and I believe has been put to rest for the foreseeable future. There has been talk about replacing or upgrading the current rifle inventory to a larger cartridge, possiblt 6. What we have seen is M14s coming out of mothballs, being upgraded and reintroduced to the battlefield. Most of these are being put to use as DM rifles and in some cases supplementing Sniper teams. I was in the USMCR when the m was introduced and we had reservations about it at the time, of course we had trained with the M-1 and M He is correct that the.

The,Bee and the swift were developed to take praire dogs, coyotes etc. I agree that some of the newer rounds such as the 6. My personal perference is the 6. In the practical world, there are more and cheaper. Every weight, every variation, is available. Upgrade to a good defensive round like the 75 grain Hornady Tap2, or the 77 grain black hills round, or the Black Hills 50 grain TSX barrier blind round and the differences are dramatic in power.

I still favor a round the most for the average person who will not have machine gun or air support. That would be a good FAL, HK91, SCAR 17, or even an AR in though they have had a lot of reliability issues over the years. Way to go; ya just let the cat out of the bag. Now Feinstein will try to limit us to 4 rounds of. I am grateful for your feedback and do not dispute your conclusions on the.

My point of contention is different. May I remind you that the man in question was defending his family, friends, and nation from invading marauders.

He was and is still a hero. The WAR and engagement that you described was and is built on lies. If we did not know it inthere should not be any doubt of it in Brave young men and women, such as yourself, who fought and died in foreign lands were duped.

You became nothing more than the muscle and thugs of criminal banks. And now those banks who so eagerly murder innocents overseas are happily planning to disarm, imprison and murder any American that stands in their way of establishing a one world government. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler figured this out in Why do we have to repeat this idiocy every generation. We have to unite to fight these monsters. Based on your wisdom, it is clear that.

War is politics by other means. Everyone has their politics buddy. The USA intends to have the best politics and walk away with the win in one form or another. Every man by their nature is defending their life, liberty and property. Your peacenik theory does not survive the test of humanity. Depends on how you look at it. I remember a towle head taking 8 X 7. If you have a service that gives you the training and the ammo, the 5. I have done 9 years in the Australian Army Infantry and trained hard for our crossed rifles.

Even on our Iraq trip, you would see the range get ripped up and the targets would have poor groupings by both US and Aust. One way to show you this is, do a m run get to the lying prone position, shoot targets 18 targets with 40 rounds from Man size to head size from 25m to m place a head target at m within 5 mins and tell me your hit rate??

For most it will be low Infantry. Your weapon is a tool and most forget that you work around your weapon and not you make the weapon work around you!

But I do love 7. The US adopted the 5. My 30,06 or Win mag is what is used when I need them to go down! When in doubt increase the lead! LMMFAO Oh hey Jar Heads when your in the shit over there FILL THE FUCKING MAGS AND FUCK ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU 7 IS ALL YOU GET!!!

I have a unique perspective having been a FMF Corpsman in Iraq and an Independent Duty Corpsman after. Many of the insurgents took massive amounts of drugs which made them very hard to put down. A friend of mine had to use his SAW and dump rounds on 2 insurgents, they just kept moving.

I have a very nice custom AR in 5. I also have 8 FN FALS, one of which is my primary weapon. It all comes down to proper shot placement, using the right ammo for your weapon and sometimes, a massive amount of luck. After using my M9 in country, I hated 9mm, even though I know that quality hollow points work in that caliber.

Go with what you shoot best with, what you can have a good amount of ammo for and matches your needs. I worked in a gun store when I was in Camp Lejeune and I saw too many people buying a rifle just because of something they read. Make sure that you get quality training for whatever weapon you choose, nothing can replace good training, there is no amount of money you can spend on a rifle or pistol that will automatically make you a better shot.

Civilians can use soft noses, and they penetrate and expand the wound channel in a human body, too. Time we declared the Geneva Convention is dead and let our troops use soft noses, or some variation thereof.

Could they fire back? Take a look at your copy of Street Survival. Remember the photo of the guy who took 33 9mm rounds before he fell down?

How about the female vet from recent campaigns that lot her arm after a RPG went straight through her? Anecdotal and therefore not valid, the sample size is too small. Nothing wrong at all with a 30 cal for combat, but it was replaced for a reason. The slight benefit from the heavier round was not worth the increased recoil and added weight. Additionally the degree of trauma you describe here argues for the lethality of the 5. If the bullet took off the back of his head and a good portion of his brain, then it was obviously effective.

Do you know what my favorite weapon is? This Ammo article and the so called loophole? Four well placed shots to the chest AND a brain shot, yet the guy got up and ran? I have been exploring for a little for any high quality articles or blog posts in this kind of area. Exploring in Yahoo I ultimately stumbled upon this site. Studying this info So i am glad to express that I have a very just right uncanny feeling I came upon exactly what I needed.

I such a lot indisputably will make certain to don? One soldier in particular, Don Burgett, describes using this rifle many times, at all distances. For example, once while fighting off a major German attack during the battle to defend Bastogne, he fired until his shoulder hurt.

Hundreds of German soldiers were attacking along with Panzers, coming down over a hill in open country. He used to hunt rabbits as a kid to help feed his family so he was an expert shot and knew whether he had hit something or not. He never once said anything, in any of his 3 books, about any time when the He fought in Normandy, Operation Market Garden, the Battle of the Bulge in Bastogne and was wounded 3 times.

Just the fact that there IS a debate at all regarding the 5. So again, just the fact there IS a debate, is evidence that failures happen too often. That was the round specifically developed by our Special Forces fighting in the middle east.

The military should listen to their advice and experience. My experience is with shooting pigs usually within yards. I use ballistic tip hollow point 55grain vmax.

The bullets shatter and do a lot of damage to the animal. Usually this was due to bad shot placement in tall grass. I agree with the Marine. With this in mind. You can carry and shoot more bullets with a smaller lighter round and it flies straighter over a greater distance requiring less adjustment on targets of different range.

If I want to drop a person instantly I use more bullets or carry a. My son shot a Mule dear at yards with a 77G SMK.

Had no issues dropping it. Ran 30 yards and fell. Bullet went straight through both lungs. The ATF does not have that […]. Thought this article was good and relevant to this topic: Finally a combat vet who was under fire knows the risk of the 5. I am a Viet Nam Veteran. I learned very quickly that I did not want to depend on the new M16 rifle round. We avoided contact if possible as a Ranger we gathered intel. However, avoiding contact did not always work out. It took five well aimed shots to bring down a NVN Solider for North Viet Nam.

After that, I picked up a AK47, My best chance of one shot kill going through the body and doing nothing. The BS of the the M16 round tumbling is also a stupid myth that I never believed.

The M16 was a nightmare to keep clean. An AR is a butcher, period. The difference downrange of the 5. Even to the point that, using the old style rifle buts, a 7. The impact if either hitting bones or structure can make for a massive exit wound. I have no desire to be shot with either, and shot placement, especially where the subject is wearing armour, is very import.

For a frontal shot, interrupting the central nervous system at the bulb i. This is why realistic training must include the fact that a person who is shot or injured is still in the fight. It is one of the reason some units concentrate on individual skills, and aimed shots at a distance, over spray and pray techniques. The same technique is also applied to close range combat.

The Soviets must have seen something to sell them on the small caliber high velocity bullet concept from what the 5. There are plenty of anecdotes from other wars that have an enemy combatant taking a lot of damage from larger caliber rifles yet keep on fighting.

So the above Iraqi might have taken hits from a larger caliber rifle and kept on going just the same. In fact, David Bellavia recounted the tale of using larger caliber rifles on an Iraqi in Fallujah and the larger caliber was about as effective as the 5. The author is correct. A heavy m14 semi auto with a RECOILS TOO MUCH?? Real recoil that makes follow ups slower is a. Anyway the author I believe would have had better luck even with a If the would have let u use a he might not have been able to get so far.

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January 9, comments. January 9, at AK has more punch than AR, and the ammo is still available tho rising in price. January 18, at February 7, at September 1, at December 10, at May 10, at June 23, at Still some ammo is better than none.

December 25, at March 1, at Hope you post more post from this marine. January 10, at January 11, at Matt in FL says: Though I can attest that 75gr BTHP does one hell of a number on feral hogs. That sounds like a great round for defensive purposes.

January 17, at September 9, at July 30, at Hundredsi of thousands have been killed with 5. April 5, at Lower perceived recoil, cheap, accurate enough.

Come on now says: January 19, at Try using one sometime. Owned 2 at one time. Then I grew up, got wiser and picked up another AR. January 20, at Thank you for your service Marine.

How much do Marine Snipers make? | Yahoo Answers

September 26, at Body shots yes, but any of these rounds to base skull is lights out. Cassandra of Troy says: And the 2nd amendment was for hunting and shooting sports.

Though I regret your career choice, I welcome you to our side, buddy. Semper Fi, devil dog! Thank you for your service and your courage in combat. I need to do some more research… How about a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

Matt in AL says: February 9, at Excellent article — link provided below: If we were serious about winning in Afghanistan…. August 11, at Owww, I have a better one! February 11, at They shot it with a. Ammo selection is also important. Soldier vs civilian is apples and oranges. Its a great round for us, with the right ammo.

Yet another reason to love that bean counting pigf—ker Robert McNamara. If memory serves it was Curtis LeMay that put in the first order for the AR. I too thank you for your service, Marine! Great article, really appreciated seeing that today.